ShaggieSAM
35 posts Member
May 7, 2017 2:34PM
So, I have observed most people putting Health mods on their Sith Trooper toon. Considering the unique ability of 100% defense and the defense up abilities, I decided to further augment this with Defense mods instead. I have a few questions regarding efficacy of defense and how much total defense is being accrued.
Here are my current defense stats first...
Vaiken's Legacy (Unique): +100%
Total Mods' Defense (%): +41.36%
Total Mods' Defense: +20 points (not percentage)
In game Defense Up: + 50%
Total: 191.36 % Defense (when benefiting from best possible total)
+20 defense points (I have no idea where/how this applies)
Questions...
1. There is no "Defense" stat-line, so how does Defense apply exactly? What stat(s) line?
2. Does this simply remove 191.36% of damage dealt (clearly not, that would be zero damage)? Does it increase armor?
3. My leader for this setup is currently zMaul. Do you find Defense more interesting/better than Health mods?
4. I could switch to Nihilus lead (not likely to) and if I do, would it be better to switch to Health mods then?
Thanks for any insight!
Dr. Shaggie
Bhaalor
1724 posts Member
May 7, 2017 4:03PM
I have been after these same questions and this is all I've been able to come up with:
I put all defense mods on my Baze (which I want to try out today in the arena) as I figure while protection is "cool" he'll be getting healed a lot, so once that protection is gone, its just health. What about reducing the damage he has incoming.
I got zero replys or comments on my reddit post, so not sure how many we'll get here either. I also posted a PM to http://gaming-fans.com/ hoping they would pot a post out about it.
Reddit Post
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/697689/stats_defense_armor_and_protection/
've looked all over, and I have found "some stuff" but most of it is outdated or incomplete. I know a lot of it has to do with the fact that most of these stats and what they do are hidden and it takes a lot of testing and guesswork to get things right.
I've been playing around with modding Tanks with Defense. I've heard conflicting data about how good or bad it is and that protection is better etc. But what about in cases like Chaze, where you keep getting healed? Would it scale better in that instance, does it scale better with tanks? Usually I always hear "no, go protection forget about anything else"; but there are others who swear by defense.
I've also been curious about stats. There are extensive guides on what all the buffs and debuffs do, but not the rest of the stats and how they affect your characters. The closest thing I found was from swgohcantina.com that has very outdated info.
I'll post all my links that I've been able to find on these matters, and if anyone has better ones or can shed some light on how these stats affect your characters, and or if they do so differently with different types of characters (Support, Tank, Healer, Attacker).
http://www.swgohcantina.com/character-max-stats/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/4239am/the_curious_case_of_defense_in_swgoh/
http://gaming-fans.com/2017/02/swgoh-a-look-at-defensive-stats-health-protection-defense/end of copy/paste
https://swgoh.gg/p/412293459/
May 7, 2017 4:40PM
Thanks for sharing the link. It was informative but certainly outdated. I wonder what has evolved about Defense since then. I had to stop reading it about half way for those intent on needless arguing with the developer attempting to clarify and approach the subject. Some people just can't let things go. Dorks!
Huatimus
3669 posts Member
May 7, 2017 4:40PM
Typing Defense Calculator into the search box of this forum yielded this gem:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/67830/defense-armor-calculator
This should explain all your queries but I'll give a brief answer so you don't have to read the entire thread.
1) There is a base defense stat which you can calculate from the calculator in the link
2) Mod % bonus adds to the base defense first before flat bonus of +20 kicks in. You will see the final damage reduction% as Armor on your character sheet.
3) Under Zaul, there is little to no healing so if protection gives 2% more effective health whereas defense only gives 1% reduction, then I would mod for protection.
4) Under Nihilus lead, I might mod for more defense as you have health steal so damage reduction works better than having a larger effective health pool. However, based on my calculations, protection is still generally better overall as the conversion rate between protection and defense skews in favour of protection.ShaggieSAM
35 posts Member
May 7, 2017 4:44PM
Huatimus wrote: »
Typing Defense Calculator into the search box of this forum yielded this gem:
https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/67830/defense-armor-calculator
This should explain all your queries but I'll give a brief answer so you don't have to read the entire thread.
Thanks for that!
Huatimus
3669 posts Member
May 7, 2017 4:53PM
Forgot to add on that defense has "diminishing returns" so considering that Sith Trooper has 100% bonus defense AND defense up most of the time, I doubt it's necessary to purposely mod for extra defense.
@Bhaalor For Baze, it might be worthwhile to mod for health as the extra health will buff Chirrut, and the healing Baze will receive is increased(since hots heal % of health). I however do not own Baze(and not likely to any time soon) so I can't be bothered to calculate the optimal break point between health and protection for him.
Bhaalor
1724 posts Member
May 7, 2017 5:08PM
Huatimus wrote: »
Forgot to add on that defense has "diminishing returns" so considering that Sith Trooper has 100% bonus defense AND defense up most of the time, I doubt it's necessary to purposely mod for extra defense.
@Bhaalor For Baze, it might be worthwhile to mod for health as the extra health will buff Chirrut, and the healing Baze will receive is increased(since hots heal % of health). I however do not own Baze(and not likely to any time soon) so I can't be bothered to calculate the optimal break point between health and protection for him.
Good Points!
https://swgoh.gg/p/412293459/
Zooey
1607 posts Member
May 7, 2017 5:16PM edited May 2017
Huatimus wrote: »
Forgot to add on that defense has "diminishing returns" so considering that Sith Trooper has 100% bonus defense AND defense up most of the time, I doubt it's necessary to purposely mod for extra defense.
@Bhaalor For Baze, it might be worthwhile to mod for health as the extra health will buff Chirrut, and the healing Baze will receive is increased(since hots heal % of health). I however do not own Baze(and not likely to any time soon) so I can't be bothered to calculate the optimal break point between health and protection for him.
It is effective because going from 20 to 25% armor is much less effective than going from 40 to 45% armor (8.3% EHP increase versus 15.1%).
Defense gives less armor per point as you increase it but that is offset in part by how effective armor is as you ramp up the percentage.
Overall +defense secondaries (flat # and not %) will still beat out prot and health in terms of survivability. That's not the case for defense mods themselves however since the +% will only stack additively with Troopers unique.
Edit: +defense stacks with Troopers unique afaik so if you're adding +20 armor to him, you're really adding +40. That's how it worked with Zody and I see no reason why it would be different for ST.
Huatimus
3669 posts Member
May 7, 2017 5:52PM
Zooey wrote: »
Huatimus wrote: »
Forgot to add on that defense has "diminishing returns" so considering that Sith Trooper has 100% bonus defense AND defense up most of the time, I doubt it's necessary to purposely mod for extra defense.
@Bhaalor For Baze, it might be worthwhile to mod for health as the extra health will buff Chirrut, and the healing Baze will receive is increased(since hots heal % of health). I however do not own Baze(and not likely to any time soon) so I can't be bothered to calculate the optimal break point between health and protection for him.
It is effective because going from 20 to 25% armor is much less effective than going from 40 to 45% armor (8.3% EHP increase versus 15.1%).
Defense gives less armor per point as you increase it but that is offset in part by how effective armor is as you ramp up the percentage.
Overall +defense secondaries (flat # and not %) will still beat out prot and health in terms of survivability. That's not the case for defense mods themselves however since the +% will only stack additively with Troopers unique.
Edit: +defense stacks with Troopers unique afaik so if you're adding +20 armor to him, you're really adding +40. That's how it worked with Zody and I see no reason why it would be different for ST.
I understand how defense works. There's a reason why I put Diminishing Returns in "", because I know it is more effective going from 40-45% as compared to 20-25%. I did not go into specifics but perhaps I should have elaborated more.
1) I would not purposely farm Defense set mods
2) I personally still find Protection Primary for Arrow, Triangle, Circle and Cross mods more effective than Defense Primary.
3) I would look out for flat defense secondaries though as I agree that they are better value.
Hence my statement that I would not purposely mod for extra defense. It's not like I'm swimming in Prot Primary mods anyway, so pretty much I'm just sticking in whatever I have.
NicWester
8928 posts Member
May 7, 2017 6:20PM
Folks hit all the main points, but one minor thing being overlooked:
Armor is damage mitigation for physical attacks.
Resistance is damage mitigation for special attacks.Defense refers to both Armor and Resistance together. So an ability that adds 100% Defense will double the base Armor and base Resistance values. But since gear gives different stats based on each item, most characters will have substantially higher Armor ratings and doubling that will give more mitigation than doubling Resistance.
Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
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